Medizin Aktuell: Herr Hübner, in this con­text it is not a co­in­ci­dence that you are talk­ing about break­ing through the third known main state of con­scious­ness: deep sleep – that state, where a per­son falls into men­tal un­con­sci­ous­ness, and even loses his con­scious­ness of life – where he no longer even knows that he exists: where the ques­tion of his ex­is­tence no longer arises at all – can arise …

Peter Hübner: … where the abil­ity to ask him the ques­tion about his ex­is­tence at all has gone astray; be­cause to ask a ques­tion, some­body must be there in the first place to ask the ques­tion.

Medizin Aktuell: And that per­son is no longer there dur­ing deep sleep – be­cause the per­son in deep sleep has even lost his own con­scious­ness of life.

Peter Hübner: That is right. For this rea­son we have to learn to break through this third main state of con­scious­ness of deep sleep ...

Medizin Aktuell: ... this “ab­so­lu­te sound bar­rier of our so-called civi­lised world’ – as you often call it.

Peter Hübner: In mod­ern civi­li­sa­tion – above all of west­ern char­ac­ter – it is typi­cal that the peo­ple, who are the least sci­en­tifi­cally, cul­turally or hu­manely edu­cated in gen­eral, like to ap­ply this term to them­selves and their ru­ined world full of un­solved prob­lems.

Medizin Aktuell: You proba­bly mean our poli­ti­cians you criti­cise in a clear and un­mis­tak­able way, as we all know.

Peter Hübner: Un­for­tu­nately!

Medizin Aktuell: Their “so-called civi­lised world” has no knowl­edge of fur­ther states of con­scious­ness – except per­haps in mod­ern sci­en­tific medi­cine; be­cause there at the Uni­ver­sity of Berke­ley in Cali­for­nia two young sci­en­tists al­ready dis­cov­ered and proved a fourth main state of con­scious­ness at the end of the six­ties, i.e. a com­pletely new state of con­scious­ness for sci­ence, when us­ing Tran­scen­den­tal Medi­ta­tion.

Peter Hübner: I have known one of these two sci­en­tists for more than thirty years, and for quite some time there has al­most been a friend­ship be­tween us.

Medizin Aktuell: It is also in­ter­est­ing that the other one has just been awarded the Hans-Selye-Prize as the foun­der and man­ager of the Mind-Body-In­sti­tute at Har­vard Uni­ver­sity dur­ing the con­gress in Ha­waii at which you gave your talk.
Hans Selye is the prede­ces­sor of Prof Dr Paul Rosch MD, the pre­sent pre­si­dent of the Ameri­can In­sti­tute of Stress, and he was the first to mould the term “stress”, as we know it to­day and use in­ter­na­tion­ally. He in­tro­duced this term “stress” into ob­jec­tive sci­en­tific medi­cine.

Peter Hübner: The ex­peri­ence and find­ing of this fourth main state of con­scious­ness, which nec­es­sar­ily re­quires the afore­men­tioned break­ing through of the ab­so­lu­te sound bar­rier of our civi­lised world of deep sleep, pro­vides us with ini­tial find­ings and knowl­edge of in­ner cos­mic ar­eas of life, which be­fore were com­pletely closed to us in the nar­row con­text of the first three main states of con­scious­ness.

Medizin Aktuell: And it is not as if, when first over­com­ing deep sleep, you now sud­denly knew it all, and eve­ry­thing was clear as to what other things ex­isted be­yond our ma­te­rial world!?

Peter Hübner: No – only very gradu­ally do the so far un­known cos­mic worlds be­yond our deep sleep open up to us. And when we break through the wall of our deep sleep again and again, we fi­nally re­al­ise that and how the ma­te­rial world is a prod­uct of the men­tal world, which again is a prod­uct of the pow­ers fur­ther inside: deeper ly­ing cos­mic worlds – up to the soul and/or to the uni­ver­sal world of the soul and be­yond this.